Clone creation confusion

2023-05-17 18:46:35

documentation@hubzilla.org

od wrote the following post Wed, 17 May 2023 18:46:27 +0200

Clone creation confusion

At the time to write, the web site 'tiksi.net' is unavailable:

"
         Apologies but this site is unavailable at the moment. Please try again later.
         "

Tried to use the 'clone' function:

zotum.net
        login page, 'remote authentication'
            requests to enter channel address
                "
                 Apologies but this site is unavailable at the moment. Please try again later.
                "

        account created
            registration process, option to import a file or to enter credentials of channel (e-mail address, channel name, channel password, option to make new account hub the primary hub). No explanation of the results if option to be primary or not.
            If the regrestration process asks for an email address, the channel is in fact the account?
            Explanation required that the password for the account is the same for all created channels
            channel export json file fails to be accepted
            After repeated attempts, dialogue text box appears:
                "Unable to download data from old server"

Is it true that the original server of the account must be active and available at the time that a clone is created?

        In connections, someone added my new channel, with a date 2 years ago!

        In the module 'files' there exists a file dated 2 years ago, even though this account was created today

        In the 'three lines' menu, there is not a hyperlink to the 'help' documentation.

        The 'help' documentation shared on the server 'tiksi.net' is incomplete in description of correct account clone. Those that may have used successful 'clone' feature, please describe, so this may be added to the documentation.

show all 19 comments

2023-05-17 18:59:11

Shimriez

shimriez@zotum.net

@od When you go to another server for to create a clone, the server will ask your home server for information (which will not work if it is offline) or let you upload/import your channel as a file. This means you will have to either have that file already created and saved - or already have created that clone.

I suspect what you actually did was to create a new account, not a clone.

2023-05-17 22:44:17

od@zotum.net

The file for the channel was created earlier and data import was not successful, because the original server is offline. The new account was created after discovery that account import is not possible.
New guidance will be written in the next version of the help file.

In a thread (#^https://zotum.net/item/9aa2f3cd-5f84-4763-84de-9f97853a52bb), it is claimed that nomadic identity allows personal data to be copied to other servers. As demonstrated in this post, this is true only when the original server is available!

2023-05-17 23:40:19

od@zotum.net

Clone creation conditions is the question. If the clone function works only when the original and new servers are accessible, participants should be aware via the documentation.

2023-05-18 17:35:15

Max Kostikov

kostikov@zotum.net

@tiksi@net was unusable due to some technical issues. Now everything is fixed and the hub is online.

2023-05-18 17:49:49

od@zotum.net

Original server is active: tiksi.net
        Activated hyperlink 'remote authentication'
        channel address entered
        nothing happened.

Please someone able to give simple instructions to clone account

2023-05-18 17:50:25

od@zotum.net

@Maria Karlsen
Please explain how to clone an account.

2023-05-18 19:06:41

Shimriez

shimriez@zotum.net

Right now I am not sure what has happened - my last attempt failed and that need to be investigated. But I can tell you how it usually works:

You pick a hub, and register
You get an email token to confirm registration
You follow the link and watch out carefully what you click on: Create a channel is the standard option but you don't want to do that. Just below, it says import channel - that's what you click on.
You will be presented with a form that asks about your home hub, fill in that and accept.
Done.

2023-05-18 23:19:04

od@zotum.net

Thank you. Documentation changed.
http://member_guide.bb

2023-05-21 18:37:06

_jayrope

jrp@hub.kliklak.net

Wow Maria and od: Que bien!

2023-06-19 12:31:20

Shimriez

shimriez@zotum.net

@od To just log in, use your accountname without @hub.name and log in using the same password as you did when you created your clone.

2023-06-19 19:20:51

Shimriez

shimriez@zotum.net

@od I am sorry I wasn't clear. I meant logging in without remote autentication, just a normal login, but at the clone site.

2023-06-24 11:12:50

od@zotum.net

@Scott M. Stolz
These statements are incorrect (self-promotion: see recent changes made to member guide documentation).
What exactly is the definition of the word "website" in this paragraph?
Scenario:
user creates account A1 on hubzilla server H1
user creates channel within account A1 (therefore a secondary entity or 'child'), C2
user creates another channel also within account A1, C3
user sign out of H1
user can sign in to H1 with user name of channel name C2, using _same password_ of account A1
user can sign in to H1 with user name of channel name C3, using _same password_ of account A1

2023-06-24 11:15:05

od@zotum.net

@Maria Karlsen
Has worked before but does not seem to work consistently, similar to your recent observation. Suggests that nomadic identity, remote authentication has not been tested fully when primary and clone hub servers are on/offline.

2023-06-24 21:04:50

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@od To be fair, @Scott M. Stolz wasn't talking about multiple channels C1, C2 and C3 on one hub H1, but the same nomadic channel C1 on multiple hubs H1, H2 and H3.

The accounts on H1, H2 and H3 may pretty well have different passwords as they're separate accounts, even if they contain the same channel.

Of course, it's also true that all channels/identities on the same account are accessed using the same password because it's still one and the same account.

2023-06-25 11:47:17

od@zotum.net

The accounts on H1, H2 and H3 may pretty well have different passwords as they're separate accounts, even if they contain the same channel.

This should not be possible. Consider:
Account A1 on hub server H1 with default channel C1 (person X with email address to register, personatsomedomain.com)

Account A2 on H2, default channel C2 (_different_ person Y with email address to register anotherpersonatanotherdomain.net

Participant must not be able to create C2 of same name as C1 because you would have un-authorised duplicate channel propagation throughout fediverse.

Of course, we do not have documenation from the programmers to describe expected and wanted behaviour.

2023-06-25 12:05:20

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@od

This should not be possible. Consider:
Account A1 on hub server H1 with default channel C1 (person X with email address to register, personatsomedomain.com)

Account A2 on H2, default channel C2 (_different_ person Y with email address to register anotherpersonatanotherdomain.net

Participant must not be able to create C2 of same name as C1 because you would have un-authorised duplicate channel propagation throughout fediverse.

What I meant was something else:

Create account A1 on hub H1.
Create channel C1 on account A1 on hub H1.
Create account A2 on hub H2.
Create clone of channel C1 on account A2 on hub H2 instead of creating a new channel.

That way, your account A1 on hub H1 and your account A2 on hub H2 can have different passwords. But you still have one and the same cloned, nomadic, sync'd channel C1 on both accounts on both hubs.

Remember that when you create a new account, you're given the choice to either create a new channel or copy/clone an existing channel. You need at least one channel on your account, but you don't have to create a new channel when you create a new account. You may just as well clone one.

2023-06-25 22:51:21

od@zotum.net

Thank you very much both of you, for these excellent descriptions.
The critical step is to understand whether to import (clone) an extant channel. Not sure how to emphasize this importance within the 'member guide'.
The next concept to document, how to manage these channels and profiles. For example, there does not seem to be an interface for the management of clones.
How does the user view, edit clones?

2023-06-26 00:10:11

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@od There's an entry in the settings that takes you to /locs where you can manage your clones. AFAIK, it only appears when you have at least one clone of your currently active channel. The clone management is quite self-explanatory.

Likewise, the profile manager /profiles is easy to find in the menu with your profile pic in the top left corner. But I think it's only there if multiple profiles are activated on your channel. They're off by default, and the switch is stashed away under /settings/features which normally doesn't have a menu entry.

Unfortunately, I can't walk anyone through the menus step by step. As a German, I have a German UI, so I can't say for certain how stuff is labelled in English.

2023-06-26 01:02:20

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@od I guess I have mine set up differently. And by website, I mean server (i.e. with a different domain name or subdomain).

Let me give you an example. (Not real usernames, obviously.)

Server 1: example.social
Account username: frank
Password: wienerschnitzel
Channel: frank@example.social

Server 2: example.org
Account username: admin
Password: polishsausage
Admin channel: admin@example.org
Forums channel: forum@example.org
Cloned channel: frank@channel.org (a clone of frank@example.social)

The accounts "admin" on example.org and "frank" on example.social do not have the same username or password, and do not even have the same collections of channels.

Remember, you can have multiple channels on one account.