A popular Poll and some thoughts
I was reading
this and these are the thoughts that came to my mind. Just sharing here because I could not post there.
Friends "Do we want to rename "Privacy groups" to "Access lists"" - Mario Vavti
Instead can we just simply call them in an easy self-explanatory term:
"Types of Friends" or "Friend types" or "Friends Lists" and in 2 size smaller font add below it in the specific page, add a note: "you can set here privately who gets to read/reply to your posts and you can see "these" when you click the lock icon when you make a new post"
That should be it! That should be all! Any thoughts on this? Also, this should be present as a default-core-installed plugin/app/module and
should not be that I have to install it separately - as a new user I was so confused how to set up my Friends Lists and then after much xxxx I found that it is "hidden" in the Apps lists. Yes, let it be un-installble if you need so.
"Privacy Groups are only "undisclosed" because the Hubzilla implementation wasn't finished. In Zap and other derivative projects, the button to disclose members actually works and other list members can often see who was included; although disclosure isn't required and privacy is the default behavior." - Mike
So, does this mean in Zap etc, others can see (or even if they do not by default, there is such possibility) my "Privacy Groups" that is, can others see
- who are my office friends
- who are my family Friends
- etc etc
Or may be I have not understood what Mike has explained in the above quote.
Forums/Groups Forums/Groups do not exist in HZ/Zap as per the most current convention that is used in commercial Facebook or free opensource php projects such as Elgg/Buddypress or Peepso(Wordpress)/Humhub. In all these examples, Groups are basically rooms or spaces or "Groups" (hmmm) with an Admin (one Admin usually) who allows you to join spontaneously or by approval or by invitation only. Thus, if you are a person, below your profile picture or in a side-bar or from a link,
you can see at least TWO separate sets of hyperlinked thumbnail pictures - one is of "Friends", another separate list of Groups you own (you are Admin of) or you are member. In Zot suite, the concept is completely different -
ALL are channels and there is only ONE set of hyperlinked thumbnails below your profile pic.
You have no idea at a glance which is your Friend (Friend Channel) and which is your Group (Group or Forum Channel). To the first-time user or even seasoned user this is unusual way to deal things. Thus, if you want to lure away anyone from Facebook or sites using Elgg/Buddypress(Wordpress)/Humhub - you are really going to have a very tough time to explain HZ Forums/ HZ Groups. But at a very personal level I do like the way HZ/Zap does this - only think just like the red/green/yellow super-mini balloons atop the mini thumbnails below the profile pic - there should be similar bubbles (or Squares) to indicate that is Group/Forum.
Forums or bulletin boards almost always present a Topic List views - (with the names of the Poster by the side) and number of comments etc - this can be done I guess with Views here also - that is present two separate UI/UX for usual channels and Forum/Group channels. In Drupal, same content type eg. Blog can be presented in any Views (by the Views Module) : Blog or typical Forum or anything else the site admin can imagine. We do not have that type of Views module here. So, in case of HZ, it would be nearest to replace "Forums" with "Groups" - it would be also the BEST way to see what other commercial or free & opernsource php scripts are meaning by Groups. However, this does not mean we also need to do what they are doing until and unless you are coming with some super-intuitive, easy and better UI/UX/name just as what Whatsapp did to become so universally popular : Alternatives that will be EASILY addictive even to your grandma and grandpa.
DM/PM"The difference between a private message and a direct message is that a direct message is addressed to individual channels, while a private message is addressed to a group of channels." - Mario Vavti
Separate DM and PM, if these are there, present another confusing thing in the sense that the rest of the world uses any ONE term! Basically DM/PM is like your own private "email" box within the same domain.
Just as we can email to a person X or bcc/cc to person X,Y & Z - we should be able to DM/PM - whatever you call the term or whatever separate meanings and functions you may have in HZ/Zot suite.
Its really customary to have a PM/DM button or link below your profile pic JUST AS you have a CONNECT button - it is as simple as that. When you click it, it opens up a separate "compose message" text box, visually different from your Share text area (for example, it has no lock icon, poll option etc etc). You have this "Message" (PM/DM) button or link so long as the Channel is a person, you do not have this if its a Group (in rest of the world).
If the person has chosen to switch OFF PM/DM (as in a locked profile or otherwise) - either the person's profile pic will not have that DM/PM button or simply he will not receive your DM/PM. That is the usual expected behavior all over the present day and all popular social-nets.
So if you bcc/cc to person X,Y & Z - does it become a sort of "Group" behavior? No, not at least in the current-day-meaning of Groups : because X Y Z cannot mutually talk to each other in the scope of PM/DM - what they can easily do in the Group/Forum.
Also note that in rest of the world:
You usually PM [DM/PM] a person (a channel who is a person, NOT a channel who is a Fourm/Group)
You cannot or DO NOT "DM/PM" a Forum/Group - that is how the world is operating these days.
Yes, when you make a fresh new post you can choose from there which one or more "Groups" you want to post instead of Public or Friends. Obviously, at HZ/Zot suite we can have our own ways or own amazing conventions or conveniences but that
may not be easy understandable to the masses, imho.
One question :As a side note : Let the Admin decide what things called for his specific site's use case just as by Language file we can change the terms - so I think : it is already there? By Language file any Admin can rename-re-language Private Groups and Forums as Foo and Bar - Is it not so?
Mike has said there :
"You can call them Foo and Bar if you want. One is a list you create/manage yourself and one is a list that is managed by a membership workflow which others can initiate. That's really as deep as it goes." This is the best summation and an excellent summary of the entire affair!
