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Tue, 12 Jan 2021 21:48:48 +0100

adminsforum@hubzilla.org

D. Ribeiro wrote the following post Tue, 12 Jan 2021 21:48:48 +0100

Instances down?
Hi!

Does anyone know what happened to some #Hubzilla instances, like dacha.xmpp.moe and libertica.space??
They are down for months!
Can an instance disappear without prior notification to its users? That is, is this kind of behavior allowed?? I've never seen anything like this anywhere. Where are my files, my posts, etc? How can I recover all that, with those instances gone?

Also... Why is Hubzilla so unbelievable slow, to the point it is unusable? It seems every Hubzilla instance is incredible slow nowadays.

And what happened to apps like "Mail" and "Chatrooms"? Are they down too? For instance, the mail app can't even be opened. On Chatrooms app we can't add any participants, and so we can only chat with ourselves... :)

Just one more thing: Why is Hubzilla getting fewer and fewer users? At the moment there are only about 9000 users. Is the project dead?

Thanks in advance,
D. Ribeiro

show all 20 comments

Tue, 12 Jan 2021 23:56:13 +0100

Malendur

malendur8944@hub.art3mis.de

dacha.xmpp.moe is down because of a config option which flooded the database. Recovering is touchy.

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 00:49:01 +0100

oRx-Qx pirateradio

michal@node9.org

Instance can go up and down according to free will or business plan of it's owner. Hubzilla is software free to use to anybody there are no conditions of running it somehow, the service conditions are between the user and the instance owner and prior spending effort somewhere anybody can read or negotiate conditions of use. And if there are no service conditions and trusted provider, expect nothing.

Because servers go up and down Hubzilla has the unique feature of channel cloning, so anybody can have more channel locations with synchronized data and be unaffected when one instance stops service.

For myself, the number of Hubzilla users is not important because all fediverse users are compatible, Hubzilla federates with ActivityPub projects and Diaspora, most of my contacts are there, just small part is on Zot protocol. For clones, 3 instances are enough, manage clones on more of them is wasting time so there is no need to have thousands.

I am pretty satisfied with speed, although I think Hubzilla could be optimised more but that needs development and testing, which is open to anybody who is interested in that and if somebody has the use scenario and strong concern needing optimizing it, no problem.

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 01:24:13 +0100

Marshall Sutherland

dwatney@hub.farthinghalearms.com

If it is slow, consider sending some money to your provider so they can pay for faster hardware. I bought my provider (myself) a SSD and it goes much faster now.

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 02:17:08 +0100

NullSpaceOddity

nsoddity@hubz.secretlair.me

I wouldn't expect any open public server that has diaspora and activitypub enabled to be fast in the long term. The additional protocols make the Hub's database grow to enormous size over time. Of course, this also leads to increased maintenance and higher hosting fees.

I'm not sure about chat, but mail was moved to a separate addon. The site admin can turn it on under Admin -> Addons - > Mail. It can then be installed for each channel owner.

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 02:35:55 +0100

NullSpaceOddity

nsoddity@hubz.secretlair.me

Also, in re: is the project dead. No, it has a small base of developers but is still being developed. In fact, the last point release wasn't that long ago.

For getting fewer new users, I would attribute that to what the typical user wants. IMO, most want entertainment.
They don't care or need the additional features Hubzilla offers, and are happy with options like Pleroma and Mastodon who have slick and easy-to-use mobile clients coupled with a fast moving social stream. Hubzilla has a higher learning curve for both admin and user. A working (but not as slick) mobile client (Nomad). And is not so centered on being just a social thing, but as a community building tool.

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 13:23:05 +0100

If I compare Hubzilla and other tools like pleroma or mastodon. Hubzilla is not fluide. Mastodon is more discussion oriented. But Hubzilla is more like a blog. Like wordpress. I find it patience demanding. Each time I click I need to wait.

Hubzilla is more complicated because has more features.

But zot is the solution for censorship problem. For me hubzilla is like a framework. Yes the learning curve is hight. Even for me I always need to relearn how to do simple things. like adding a new contact or removing contact I don't want anymore.

Cloning is not easy. You need to find instance. And it is like lottery. You try an open instance then ... ohhh it miss activitypub or .. then you loose many contacts and you stay here in your island. Because zot is a smwll island. with maybe 2000 users.

I know this is a wonderfull tools that is able to to that and that and that and all but that needs patience and time and learning.

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 17:28:39 +0100

D. Ribeiro

d_ribeiro@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Thank you for you wise words, dear NullSpaceOddity.

The problem of Hubzilla's incredible slowness, derived from the various protocols it uses, has to be quickly solved. I even think that this is one of the main reasons that prevent a more general adoption of Hubzilla.

I have managed to get several people to try Hubzilla, but the first criticism they point out is the extreme slowness of the system.

Another criticism that people repeatedly make is the fact that the interaction with user profiles of Mastodon, Diaspora (etc), is far from perfect. And they are right ... In fact, it is not the same thing, for example, having an account on Diaspora or Mastodon, and interacting with other people with accounts on the same social networks, or having an account on Hubzilla and interacting with users with account in Diaspora or Mastodon ... So compatibility is far from being ideal ...

In addition, Hubzilla still has too many inconsistencies. We could be here for weeks just talking about them ...

I'll just talk about one. On one hour our posts with embedded YouTube videos work seamless, the next hour those videos are no longer embedded and all we have is a link to them...

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 17:37:02 +0100

D. Ribeiro

d_ribeiro@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

I almost forgot something ...

Another fundamental reason to prevent further adoption of Hubzilla is the lack of an application for mobile devices.
I know that there is the Nomad application. But this application is just a wrapper, and it works very poorly ... And the Navigation in Hubzilla is even slower if done through Nomad.
Greetings to all.

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 17:44:18 +0100

D. Ribeiro

d_ribeiro@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Wed, 13 Jan 2021 17:45:05 +0100

D. Ribeiro

d_ribeiro@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 14:00:33 +0100

D. Ribeiro

d_ribeiro@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Why don't my comments appear here? Are you censoring free speech ?? Or is this another sign of the complete chaos that Hubzilla is going through?

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 15:24:49 +0100

D. Ribeiro

d_ribeiro@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

No, my comments don't appear here, only some of them. Are you suggesting that I'm stupid? Do I not know what comments I make and post?

The problems I mentioned above, such as the extreme slowness of Hubzilla, the inconsistencies and failures with regard to federation with other social networks of the Federation, the lack of a good application for mobile devices, the lack of reliability of the servers, often poorly managed, and that disappear without even warning, etc., unless quickly resolved, will lead to the end of Hubzilla.

We are heading towards the catastrophe. We are witnessing an authentic disaster. To continue like this any day we have a dozen Hubzilla servers and no more than 300 or 400 active users...

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 15:58:43 +0100

D. Ribeiro

d_ribeiro@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Just yesterday it seems like we had another death. The #^https://zotum.net/ node has disappeared. Gone with the wind ...

Start.hubzilla.org has already announced that it will soon be leaving Hubzilla. Dascha ... went with the wind ... Libertica.Space has been down for a long time, having now returned. Zotum.net has also disappeared from circulation. Servers like netzgemeinde.eu and disroot are having more and more problems, and are slower than ever.

We have fewer and fewer nodes. We have fewer and fewer users.
There are also increasingly critical and evident failures in terms of nomadic identity, that is, in terms of cloning channels. What appears in one has enormous differences with what appears in others ... Cloning therefore seems to be transformed into chaos.

Incompatibilities, errors and failures, at different levels of Hubzilla's functioning, increase in such a way that I legitimately begin to doubt that they can be resolved.

But here we go, singing and laughing, acting like nothing is going on.

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 16:36:59 +0100

Don't trust other public instance run your own instance. Or maybe what you are looking for is maybe something like pleroma

Did you try plerom with soapbox interface ? Maybe Hubzilla is too big for your needs

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:27:44 +0100

Max Kostikov

kostikov@zotum.net

@Ranfaroth

if you know how to fix those problems, please expose it

The main problem when someone only wants to consume goods and blame everyone without giving anything in return is insoluble.

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 18:32:45 +0100

Alexander Goeres

jabgoe2089@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Max Kostikov not everybody is a developer or has sysadmin-abilities. even those people should be able to use open source software. but of course in general it is not helpful to offend people if you want something from them.

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 19:03:11 +0100

oRx-Qx pirateradio

michal@node9.org

I have a hub running on Raspberry Pi 3 and 3 others on Raspberry 4B and i have myself and others enjoying the speed on 4B and of course the Pi3 with 1GB RAM is more relaxed implemented towards solar power use. I think this is not possible with extremely slow software.

There is some waiting sometimes but in comparison with Mastodon sites which I use no real difference because the slower operations are functions not present on Mastodon. Actually... waiting 0.7 sec on Hubzilla and 2-8 years on Mastodon (prediction).

And another great thing in Hubzilla network is we have also the Apocalypse announcer too, so I am happy.

Of course Hubzilla scaling is some issue, but the log-term DB management and other maintenance tools and opitimisation can come when someone needs that and have the resources at least for bug reporting or some development work. Hubzilla is not Wordpress, some unexperienced admins and bad server design can take it to its knees but something advertised "advanced" is not "easy beginner" the same time. I would not suggest somebody wanting to "try" to run it just for curiosity to make a public hub with thousnads of channels because the federation traffic is enormous. That needs to be profesionally run with proper resources.

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 02:15:58 +0100

D. Ribeiro

d_ribeiro@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

At least 3 or 4 minutes of waiting, until a page opens. But in most cases the page doesn't even open.
And "504 Gateway Time-out" is almost the norm.

A social network with no users, just servers. A social network where each user must have their own server. There are people who do not think, before posting. What an anecdote...

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 13:19:53 +0100

hEARt PhoniX

tobias@hubzilla.rocks

Wow.
You have earned yourself a gold medal. 3-4 minutes sure is a record, something I have not yet heard of.
:medal:

Now, do you like this answer? I guess not. Actually I don't like answering that way, at all, as I regard it as rude and non-helpful, but I chose those words to show you how I feel reading your posts, they do not show me that you understand that this is a non-commercial project where everyone is invited to name issues, narrow down problems and issues, ask questions and help each other with the knowledge we have got. Everyone of us has got something to contribute, even asking a howto question can be useful. Just complaining that a tool is bad and finding more examples of how truly awfully bad it is ... may not improve things.

Just in case you may actually be interested in finding a solution, there are several places to look.

Where is that page you are trying to open? Is it your own hub or someone else's?
That may indicate either that server is not coping with the load and the admin should think about an upgrade, or read about using the server's power appropriately. Gateway timeout may indicate some timeout values may need increasing, or other screws adjusted.
If it's your own server, have a look at the underlying OS and it's basic settings.
Always keep in mind that you are free to chose the software you want to use. There is plenty. But possibly you will achieve more if you are friendly and try your best to help finding the bugs and solutions. If you keep on being sarcastic ... that may not get you very far in any community. I am afraid, it will not even make you a welcome customer for commercial products.

Sat, 16 Jan 2021 18:10:38 +0100

oRx-Qx pirateradio

michal@node9.org

@D. Ribeiro

At least 3 or 4 minutes of waiting, until a page opens.

You are in very deep shit bro. I would be upset and frustrated too. What keeps you in such a dark corner of fediverse, do you want help finding a better hub?